Any intrest in a firearms training forum??

**Strycnine** · 07-12-2010, 05:25 PM

Wonder if there's any intrest in a firearms training forum. Maybe have a training calender to browse through and find out what events are going on? This will be a brand new forum using vBulletin 4.0.4.

**tomiswho** · 07-12-2010, 09:42 PM

Not here. I wouldn't mind some INEXPENSIVE training/coaching as far as my target shooting goes, but definately no on any of the "urban tactical"/ "buy you some camo and be ready for the revolution" with your black guns stuff.

What would be good for Georgians is some INEXPENSIVE classes on the use of deadly force. As easy as our carry permits are to get (and they should be) most folks I know really don't have a clue when they would be justified to use their deadly weapon. Actually, if this were a requirement (along with some shooting) our CCW permits would be accepted in a lot more states.

One problem I've seen is that "gun instructors" figure to charge each student beau coup $$ for instruction I think should be very inexpensive. Yeah, If I decided to go to Gunsite or some big time summer camp for wanna be commandos, I would expect to pay a bundle. But bringing people into the gun community and helping them become responsible CCW holders should be a low price no-brainer.

**Outsydlooknin75** · 07-13-2010, 08:14 AM

Jack, there WAS a calendar on arfcom, but NO ONE helped update it and so it went away.

Tom as far as your comments, well I am sorry that you feel that way but being able to shoot on the move and do the "urban tactical"/ "buy you some camo and be ready for the revolution" with your black guns stuff, is an important skillset and will help you more to keep your butt alive when needed.

As far as when it is ok to use deadly force. whenever you are in fear for your life .... plain and simple.

I feel that your opinion is what is wrong with this world and is what is going to split the legal gun owners of America.

**Strycnine** · 07-13-2010, 10:44 AM

What's wrong with black guns?

**SGT.Cap** · 07-13-2010, 01:26 PM

I think we have just been Zumbo'ed.

**tomiswho** · 07-13-2010, 08:47 PM

No Zumbo here (Yes I'm familiar with him)- I'm real happy that there are many of you into the "black gun" thing - I have no problem with it. It's been the tradition of American shooters to adapt the military rifle to civilian use for generations. I have and shoot a nice M-1 carbine and a No. 1 Mk III* Lee-Enfield. The current "tactical rage" is just not my personal cup of tea. I have a great respect for those who train hard and master combat skills. I did that at one time myself courtesy of the US Army.

Probably my "bit" of sarcasm comes from my personal experience seeing far more "mall ninjas" around here (where I live, not this board) who CAN damage our cause, than I have the seriously trained/in-training folks.

I hope that describes my position a bit clearer - I certainly didn't mean to put anyone down because of their choices!

Tom

**SGT.Cap** · 07-14-2010, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by tomiswho

Not here. I wouldn't mind some INEXPENSIVE training/coaching as far as my target shooting goes,please explain your "target shooting". What does your normal range session consist of? but definately no on any of the "urban tactical"/ "buy you some camo and be ready for the revolution" with your black guns stuffin case your curious this is the statement that pissed me off.

What would be good for Georgians is some INEXPENSIVE classes on the use of deadly force. As easy as our carry permits are to get (and they should be) most folks I know really don't have a clue when they would be justified to use their deadly weapon. Actually, if this were a requirement (along with some shooting) our CCW permits would be accepted in a lot more states.

Talk to DKing. I know he used to offer training for an out-of-state CCW permit. That training would provide what you seek, and he is a wealth of information on the subject

One problem I've seen is that "gun instructors" figure to charge each student beau coup $$ for instruction I think should be very inexpensive. Yeah, If I decided to go to Gunsite or some big time summer camp for wanna be commandos, I would expect to pay a bundle. But bringing people into the gun community and helping them become responsible CCW holders should be a low price no-brainer.

Please explain the following:

Why is "gun instructors" in quotation marks?
What would you consider : beau coup $$?
What do you consider "very inexpensive"? NRA courses are cheap by my standards and offer very basic training. Appleseed shoots are as well and offer great training for the money invested.

Please define wanna be "commandos" and "responsible CCW holders".

Originally Posted by tomiswho

No Zumbo here I disagree, but let's not dwell on it (Yes I'm familiar with him)- I'm real happy that there are many of you into the "black gun" thing - I have no problem with it sounds like you do. It's been the tradition of American shooters to adapt the military rifle to civilian use for generations why do you think that is? I would like a serious response to this. I have and shoot a nice M-1 carbine and a No. 1 Mk III* Lee-Enfield. The current "tactical rage" is just not my personal cup of tea. I have a great respect for those who train hard and master combat skills. I did that at one time myself courtesy of the US ArmyI was in the Army, obviously. The vast majority of soldiers I have met, even in combat arms MOS's know dick about shooting..

Probably my "bit" of sarcasm that was more than a bit, of something I wouldn't call sarcasmcomes from my personal experience seeing far more "mall ninjas" around here (where I live, not this board) who CAN damage our cause, than I have the seriously trained/in-training folks.would you consider yourself trained or in-training? Again thats a serious question. Also please explain the mall-ninja's that will hurt our cause.

I hope that describes my position a bit clearer - I certainly didn't mean to put anyone down because of their choices! honestly it doesn't. It just brings to light the contempt you have for your fellow gun owners that don't "do it your way". I will also point out that the original intent for this thread was to guage interest in people seeking training and that by your own admission you are not. By the same token you are contemtous of those that might actually be seeking training to expand their skill set beyond your "target shooting"

Zumbo

Your answers to the above questions might change my opinion but so far this is what I have gathered. YOur latest response seems more like a halfassed attempt to remove your foot from your mouth than an actual explanation or more appropriately, retraction.

As to Jack's OP, I would be interested and will do anything I can to help. Thank you.

**Strycnine** · 07-14-2010, 07:27 AM

I love a good discussion!

Let's try to keep it civil

**bigjimmy57** · 07-14-2010, 09:30 AM

Get'em Cap!!! I think he is refering to anyone who plays a game with his gun.

**tomiswho** · 07-14-2010, 06:32 PM

Well, SGT.Cap, it looks like I lit your fuse.

You seemed to want more details. Okay. Not that it will make any difference.

After shooting handguns since 1968, I'm not getting any better, sometimes worse. A good "group" for me (I usually shoot at 10 meters/33 feet) is 10 shots in 2 to 3 inches. I usually shoot .22 semi, .38/.357 and .45 Colt revolvers. I'd like to tighten that up by half without optics. If a credentialed handgun instructor (as described below) could help me improve to where I could shoot groups half that size, I believe it would be worth about $20/hr for up to 4 hours total. That's what I consider reasonable.

Next. Though I've read (and still have) books by Mel Tappan et.al. I'm not a "survivalist" in the sense he wrote about so many years ago. I do not believe "the end is near" in either a religious or political sense as do some of my close friends. We may disagree, but I would hope that my opinion (and the right for me to hold it) is respected.

I have no problem with those interested (I'm not, as I said) in pursuing tactical training with their weapon of choice (which for many right now are the M-16 style weapons) but at the same time, I see no need for a cadre of civilian commandos. (If you are seriously trying to get a job with Blackwater, or whatever they are called now, you better already have the skills) I believe, for some, that being "tactical" has become an obsession as much as drugs, gambling, sometimes religion, or crack-berry high-tech everything. Sometimes I do make fun of those with the tactical addiction, sorry about that.

"Gun instructors" in quotation marks. Well, you got me there. I was being sarcastic about some folks who call themselves gun instructors without the full compliment of background, training, skill, and actual teaching ability. As a teacher myself (mathematics) I've seen and worked alongside many pretenders and bull-sh*ters during my career.

"Responsible CCW holders" - well, to me that certainly means an ability to handle that persons weapon of choice, and enough knowledge to know how to determine when and where deadly force is legally allowable. It also means to me the knowledge of how to actually "pack" the weapon. None of these are requirements for a CCW here in Georgia. I'm not looking for this training myself, but I think it would be appropriate and a positive step to begin such a thing. I would actually think it a good idea to make this a legal requirement. As I said, I think it would certainly broaden the number of states offering CCW reciprocity. Beau coup $$ for such a course?? I think it would be reasonable and appropriate to charge $50/person for a small group class (5-10 people, including range time)

Beyond that, I have no retraction and no apology. I don't need your approval. And as Sean Hannity says, "You are a great American."

Tom